Amnes. Intern. finds United States to be Morally Abject

[Mike]

I don't know who really viewed the Soviet Union as divine from the exterior ... because out of the four East Asian countries to have battles with Communism (Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Laos), none of them were looking to resemble Soviet Communism. Most of the elites who led the revolutions were educated in France, towards more of an egalitarian socialism ... that was impossible to be implemented, unfortunately, for the hundreds of thousands who starved and were eaten because of it. China was the only prominant Asian country who seeked to capture Soviet Communism, on account of Mao's fascination with Stalin. But, by the time of the second Great Leap Forward, and Stalin had been replaced and villianized by Kruschev, so they went on their own path. Mao, continued though, to use failed Stalinist agricultural and economic models ... for whatever reason.

There's also a slight myth with how the United States aided Osama Bin Laden... and I don't fault you at this because it's often overlooked when information sources cite how we aided Bin Laden and encouraged the 70's and 80's Jihad movement. We sent most of the money to Pakistan who then funnelled it to the Mujadideen (sp?)... The Pakistanis had most of the control as to who got more money, and considering that Bin Laden and what would later form the widest terrorist network in the world were the most effective at defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan... Pakistan funnelled more towards those sources.

We're looking at this, though, in a retrospect that sees the Soviet Union for what they were. We view the Gorbachev years as after Pandora's Box had been opened ... and it seems like it was an inevitability, but at the time it wasn't. You didn't know what could have happened ... Gorbachev could have been replaced, the coup in 1991 (or 1990, I forget) could have been a success... And they could have been run by a military oligarchy. And, even today, facing the terrorist threat that the world faces, the Soviet Union was more a threat to global stability than terrorism is. When ever one of the largest arrays of nuclear weapons is at the disposal of any unstable government, it is a great risk. Finally, the weapons that Bin Laden is using now are mostly weapons that they've bought long after the funelled money from the US ran dry... from former Soviet bloc countries, funded by majoritively Middle Eastern (but some Western) networks.

[Mr Biglesworth]

Originally Posted by Mike

I don't know who really viewed the Soviet Union as divine from the exterior ...

Margaret Thatcher (ohh, maggie...) attacked some of the people who did this. Let me grab the book and i'll throw in some quotes.

Originally Posted by Margaret Thatcher

AT the height of the famine in 1932, the worst in Russia's history, the visiting biologist Julian Huxley found 'a level of physique and general health rather above that to be seen in England'. Similarly, George Bernard Shaw wrote that 'Stalin has delivered the goods to an extent that seemed impossible ten years ago, and I take my hat off to him.' H.G. Wells was equally impressed, reporting that he had 'never met a man more candid, fair, and honest... no one is afraid of him and everybody trusts him'.
...
Sidney and Beatrice Webb were similarly overwhelmed by the glories of the soviet experiment. Their 1200-page book, which faithfully parroted any Soviet propaganda they could pick up, was originally entitled Soviet Communism: A New Civilization?: but the question mark was removed from the second edition, which appeared in 1937 -- the height of the terror.
The capacity of the left to believe the best of communism and the worst of anti-communists has something almost awe-inspiring about it.
the economist J.K. Galbraith wrote of his visit in 1984: "That the Soviet system has made great material progress in recent years is evident both from the statistics and from the general urban scene... One sees it in the apearance of well-being of the people on the streets... Partly, the Russian system succeeds because, in contrast with the Western industrial economies, it makes full use of its manpower."
...
One large problem with this theory was that those who held it had constantly to be trying to find advantages in a soviet system which had none that were apparent to Soviet citizens. As the former dissident Vladimir Bukovsky once remarked - referring to the Russian proverb to the effect that you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs - he had seen plenty of broken eggs, but never tasted any omelette.

I'm not commenting on the analogies or anything else, just thought it was worth posting. Ohhh, maggie....

[Mike]

Margarette Thatcher.. ::shivers::

That's about 20 - 30 years earlier than Jeppy's referring to, and I think he's referring to revolutionary groups.. like the Khmer Rouge, Jusche Philosophers, etc. I'd definitely agree with Maggie that there's a huge number of people who look for any reason to glorify the Soviets. It seems unusual that you have so many people that are willing to defend a system that led to the murder of somewhere around 50 million people... especially because many of the same seem to be completely appalled by a fraction of that with Hitler's Germany.

[Mr Biglesworth]

you still didn't answer my question, mike... look through my posts

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Mr Biglesworth

you still didn't answer my question, mike... look through my posts

Yeah, sorry about that, I didn't see the post you made right before my response to Jep on the USSR being divinated... THe Quick Reply thing causes me to skip over them ... because I click quick reply on somebody's reply and miss the others.

be back in a bit