Dumb ass Cali fools. Jacko is found Not Guilty... WTF

[malta]

"I love bob dylan"

No doubt that he pulled the trigger.

If I was black, I wouldn't like to be called african american. I'd be muslim, so you'd call me God.

Regardless of what race I'm born as, I'd prefer you just call me by my damn name, which is way too often confused as 'christian' and 'justin' at sub shops...

[Plain Old Jane]

Originally Posted by Mike

Thank you, that undermines socialism. I completely agree.

yay

Chicken ... egg ...

okay, all i hear is "im a tool and bush rools."
omigawd, jay kay, i lurve you mikey.

as much as I'd like to say that that isnt true, it is to some extent, tho if we were all living in the same conditions (communism!) the problem would be clearly visible, nature or nurture.

But it's proven that its easier to change one self rather than the environment, so we all have to keep fucking eachother til we're all the same color.

(same reason terraforming mars is unconventional, it'd be easier to teach humans to breath methane, benzene, CO, and the small amount of O2 in the air there.)

That still doesn't change that there is absolutely zero evidence that communism is a viable alternative to capitalism, and that a socialist 'government' is a viable alternative to a democratic republic. On the other hand, there is a host of evidence that capitalism and democratic republics are fine selections of government and economy. Though, in regards to your comment, you'd be hard pressed to find the republic anywhere outside the walls or Rome, despite the vastness of the empire. You'd also be hard pressed to find democracy anywhere outside of Athens, despite the vastness of that empire. Conversely, the entirety of the Soviet Union had the same structure... no part any better than the other. The same can be said for China, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, and Juische Korea.

Thats like saying (if it were 70 ad) that since christians keep getting fed to lions that its not going to catch on. and to promote it at all would be a complete waste of time. (fun factoid: the image of christ was in many ways inspired by the image of zeus)

Btw, you completely missed my point about bob dylan, you should be ashamed and should commit seppuku immidiatly.

[malta]

"Btw, you completely missed my point about bob dylan, you should be ashamed and should commit seppuku immidiatly."

Clearly you don't know what song I'm thinking of.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Plain Old Jane

okay, all i hear is "im a tool and bush rools."
omigawd, jay kay, i lurve you mikey.

Ok? Typical, you can only see this as "Jep vs. Bush bi-proxy."

as much as I'd like to say that that isnt true, it is to some extent, tho if we were all living in the same conditions (communism!) the problem would be clearly visible, nature or nurture.

... communism has nothing to do with it. It's like saying "If we were all millionaires (COMMUNISM!) then everything would be great!" Falsely associating communism with something good does not make communism good.

But it's proven that its easier to change one self rather than the environment, so we all have to keep fucking eachother til we're all the same color.

(same reason terraforming mars is unconventional, it'd be easier to teach humans to breath methane, benzene, CO, and the small amount of O2 in the air there.)

Haven't we already realized that it's not a race issue? You said "Obviously there's more cops in Oakland than Sunnydale." If a white person in an alley in Oakland is shooting crack there's a higher likelihood that he'll be arrested than a black person shooting crack in his house in Sunnydale. Its just that more Black people, by way of their economic situation, tend to live in Oakland, not Sunnydale.

And it's nothing like Mars, but if you'd like to continue to bring up obscur points that do nothing but muddle your arguments, feel free. if your points cannot justify themselves with realistic examples, then they are probably not good points.

Thats like saying (if it were 70 ad) that since christians keep getting fed to lions that its not going to catch on. and to promote it at all would be a complete waste of time.

Um, no, it's nothing like saying that. Communism has obviously caught on, because there are millions of people who seek to defend it despite the horror that has been self-inflicted by every political system that has ever employed it as the focus of their economic system. The question isn't about "what will catch on," it is about what is good and what is bad. Christianity was OBVIOUSLY bad in 70 ad because you would be ostracized and often murdered for being a Christian--but you were not murdered by Christians, but rather Jews and Romans. 70 AD is probably a bad time to make your point though, because it was when the Romans began to sac every religion that was not Roman in the empire ... starting with Judaism after the second book of Maccabees. You'll be hard pressed to find the earliest Christians murdering other Christians, or murdering anybody. That is not the case for Communism and Socialism.

(fun factoid: the image of christ was in many ways inspired by the image of zeus)

Fun Factoid: You're wrong. Many people think that the idea of Christ was inspired by Mythrais, Zoroastor, or Thor who all shared tragic ends, representing themselves as self-sacrifice. Many Jews, despite contrary Jewish law, intermingled with Zoroastrians and Baalists, and borrowed their tradition (the book of Job is thought to be an ancient Zoroastrian fable). However, Christ was a man and Christians worship the Son of Man, not the image of the Son of Man (though, I have criticisms of some denominations who I believe do worship an image of the Son of Man, though it's probably not what you're thinking). Christ is nearly nothing like Zeus. In every way that you would refer to Zeus, it is in contrary to nearly every way that you would refer to Christ. If you meant Mysthrais, Zoroastor, or Thor then it is not a "fun factoid" and you're not offering something that people don't know. Anybody who has studied Christian theology knows that.

Btw, you completely missed my point about bob dylan, you should be ashamed and should commit seppuku immidiatly.

I don't know if this is for Tristan or Me ... but I really don't care. Your references to Mars, Japanese suicide practices, and pop-music make your already lax arguments weaker.

[Plain Old Jane]

Originally Posted by Mike

Ok? Typical, you can only see this as "Jep vs. Bush bi-proxy."

no, it was supposed to make you laugh.

... communism has nothing to do with it. It's like saying "If we were all millionaires (COMMUNISM!) then everything would be great!" Falsely associating communism with something good does not make communism good.

you really need to put two and two together here, I sort of assumed you'd see the long term effects of communism. I had hoped to avoid these long posts, so cummunism is defined as: Communism is an economic and political system based on the principle "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. " It stresses that the control of the means of producing economic goods in a society should reside in the hands of those who invest their labor for production. In its ideal form, social classes cease to exist, there is no coercive governmental structures, and everyone lives in abundance without supervision from a ruling class. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels popularized this theory in their 1848 Communist Manifesto.

Read as it is, capital is owned by the government and the people live with relativly the same amount of financial power as the next person, hence no social structure. We can see in our own culture, bits of communism. People who have the same amount of money live in similar environments. West Beverly people live in lavish houses, with pools and never go hungry. Po' black folks in the projects who make 300 bucks a month live in shitty holes in the sides of buildings and have hep C.

I'm saying that a communistic economy with the financial backing of a country like... saudi arabia, would be beneficial for all its citizens instead of the to and fro with capitalism.

btw, el oh el, I said cummunism up there.

Haven't we already realized that it's not a race issue? You said "Obviously there's more cops in Oakland than Sunnydale." If a white person in an alley in Oakland is shooting crack there's a higher likelihood that he'll be arrested than a black person shooting crack in his house in Sunnydale. Its just that more Black people, by way of their economic situation, tend to live in Oakland, not Sunnydale.

I was agreeing with you... dip shit...

And it's nothing like Mars, but if you'd like to continue to bring up obscur points that do nothing but muddle your arguments, feel free. if your points cannot justify themselves with realistic examples, then they are probably not good points.

HOWEVER, race is not a prereq for future actions, the problem lies in people who think it is, racists. So instead of changing racists, change the race. I say that cuz I think its right and I'd really like to date an eskimo.

Take microbiology or something, and you'll see that its easier to have bacteria (through micro pilli or translocation of genetic material) feed on the calcium casienate in milk plates than to have a continuous source of glucose dripped on the plate and then hire someone to make sure the osmotic pressure doesnt lyse everything. It costs more to change the environment then to change the inhabitants. thats my point.

Um, no, it's nothing like saying that. Communism has obviously caught on, because there are millions of people who seek to defend it despite the horror that has been self-inflicted by every political system that has ever employed it as the focus of their economic system. The question isn't about "what will catch on," it is about what is good and what is bad. Christianity was OBVIOUSLY bad in 70 ad because you would be ostracized and often murdered for being a Christian--but you were not murdered by Christians, but rather Jews and Romans. 70 AD is probably a bad time to make your point though, because it was when the Romans began to sac every religion that was not Roman in the empire ... starting with Judaism after the second book of Maccabees. You'll be hard pressed to find the earliest Christians murdering other Christians, or murdering anybody. That is not the case for Communism and Socialism.

i didnt say christians murdered christians, tho they do plenty of that now.
so you're saying the ideals are to blame for communisms downfall?
can I see a study on that, pooky?

Fun Factoid: You're wrong.

::inserts photos::


I said the image, the ideals are made up by the people, and they imprint them on their messiahs or rather their views of their messiahs, not the other way around.

Jee-Zeus Christ ::laughs::
I'm so not using this as a reason, I just find it funny.

[seriousness]Though all these crap religions that have ties to messiahs and all powerful gods and commandments and precepts, books, floods, and all manners of other BS have their roots in the crib of humanity and all the wars and persecutions that took place 4000 years ago. you can trace the flood stories of most religions back to babylons libraries and babylons conquering ofall the tribes and monarchies there, you can trace the idea of Sons Of God back to zoroastrainism. you can trace the idea of holy war way the fuck back, to even before zoroastrainism cuz zealots cant stand the fact that everyone doesnt think like them. and before you ask me to prove it, why dont you start coming up with reasons why my reasons are bunk instead of asking me to prove them all the time, sometimes you can be really annoying.[/seriousness]

so yea, eskimos're hawt...

I don't know if this is for Tristan or Me ... but I really don't care. Your references to Mars, Japanese suicide practices, and pop-music make your already lax arguments weaker.

I wasnt making an arguement, just saying my views but you always seem to take them so seriously, I wasnt looking for a fight, I just wanted to add my input and perhaps make someone chuckle, but if you're anti-chuckle we can fight right now!

in all honesty, i dont care about jacko, i dont care about christianity, i dont care about communism, and i dont care that you disagree with everything i say just cuz I'm the one saying it. you gotta lotta growing up to do.

[Plain Old Jane]

ohhhh, lookie here, god loves communism

Originally Posted by god

No one claimed private ownership of any possessions, but everything they owned was held in common...There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold...and it was distributed to each as any had need. Acts 4:32

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Plain Old Jane

you really need to put two and two together here, I sort of assumed you'd see the long term effects of communism. I had hoped to avoid these long posts, so cummunism is defined as: Communism is an economic and political system based on the principle "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. " It stresses that the control of the means of producing economic goods in a society should reside in the hands of those who invest their labor for production. In its ideal form, social classes cease to exist, there is no coercive governmental structures, and everyone lives in abundance without supervision from a ruling class. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels popularized this theory in their 1848 Communist Manifesto.

We all know the definition and the history of Communism ... so it's really useless to list it and expect anybody to take this as having any sort of chance at being a veritable method of society. Marx also offered six predictions in the Manifesto, all of which were wrong. Why under any circumstances would the rest of his work be somehow good, when under practical application it results in starvation and mass murder, and under philosophical observation, it is riddled with holes? Furthermore, when ALL of the predictions of the text (1] The Revolution would occur in his lifetime; 2] The Revolution would occur in a heavily industrialized country; 3] THe revolution would occur in Germany; 4] Under Capitalism, working days would get longer; 5] Under capitalism, conditions for laborers would get worse; 6] Under Capitalism, laborers would continue to earn less and less) ARE WRONG ... why is it that we feel compelled to give credence to the rest of it? So the text is wrong, the practical application fails worse than any economic plan in modern history, and the philosophical application does not righly apply to the human condition. I don't understand the addiction that people have with communism and socialism.

Read as it is, capital is owned by the government and the people live with relativly the same amount of financial power as the next person, hence no social structure. We can see in our own culture, bits of communism.

You cannot have "bits of communism." That's anti-communist. Or are you going to give the history of the Manifesto and then not mention the parts where Marx is completely against labor unions and a give and take of socialist policies?

People who have the same amount of money live in similar environments. West Beverly people live in lavish houses, with pools and never go hungry. Po' black folks in the projects who make 300 bucks a month live in shitty holes in the sides of buildings and have hep C.

The number of "poor" people in America is inflated. 98% of Americans have color telivision. 83% have air conditioning. Less than 1% of Americans, in the 2000 census, said that they feel that they don't have enough food sometimes.

I'm saying that a communistic economy with the financial backing of a country like... saudi arabia, would be beneficial for all its citizens instead of the to and fro with capitalism.

Saudi Arabia? One of the richest governments in the world? Employ Communism in Saudi Arabia and the country falls to shambles. There one of the few countries in the Middle East with a stable economy.

I was agreeing with you... dip shit...

Then why would you say that we need to change race and eliminate the races? Does this go along with your eliminate the classes idea, the eliminate society idea, and then, finally, eliminate the citizen idea? Well, I guess if your goal is to eliminate human beings, Communism would be the best approach.

HOWEVER, race is not a prereq for future actions, the problem lies in people who think it is, racists. So instead of changing racists, change the race. I say that cuz I think its right and I'd really like to date an eskimo.

I'm all for getting rid of Racists, but that means all of your friends in the NAACP and just about 30% of the Liberals in America.

i didnt say christians murdered christians, tho they do plenty of that now.
so you're saying the ideals are to blame for communisms downfall?
can I see a study on that, pooky?

That the ideals of Communism are it's downfall? You need not a study... Take a look at Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean agricultural policies from their respective histories. There's hundreds of books written on this topic, even many by self-serving liberals. I'll get a book list for you in a little bit.

I said the image, the ideals are made up by the people, and they imprint them on their messiahs or rather their views of their messiahs, not the other way around.

You do realize when somebody says "The Image of Christ" they are referring to something completely different than "A painting of Jesus."

Jee-Zeus Christ ::laughs::
I'm so not using this as a reason, I just find it funny.

Um ... ok? There are images of Charlie Chapman that look startlingly like Adolf Hitler. Don't you find that funny, shouldn't you post that instead?

[seriousness]Though all these crap religions that have ties to messiahs and all powerful gods and commandments and precepts, books, floods, and all manners of other BS have their roots in the crib of humanity and all the wars and persecutions that took place 4000 years ago. you can trace the flood stories of most religions back to babylons libraries and babylons conquering ofall the tribes and monarchies there, you can trace the idea of Sons Of God back to zoroastrainism. you can trace the idea of holy war way the fuck back, to even before zoroastrainism cuz zealots cant stand the fact that everyone doesnt think like them. and before you ask me to prove it, why dont you start coming up with reasons why my reasons are bunk instead of asking me to prove them all the time, sometimes you can be really annoying.[/seriousness]

These "crap religions" have their roots in the birth of humanity? So what exactly makes them "crap" religions? Because they all share similar stories?

"Idea of Sons of God." There is a stark difference between Son of God and Son of Man. I could be considered a Son of God. There is only one Son of Man.

"and before I ask you to prove it, why don't I start coming up with reasons why your reasons are bunk, instead of asking me to prove it."

First, I dejustify your claims all the time ... just about in every conversation we have. I really don't have to though, because the burden of proof is on you. Furthermore, I'm not going to aks you to "prove" that they have those ties because it's common knowledge. When you make assinine assertions about Communism and that all of these religions that have ties to humanity's roots are "crap," it is your duty to supply the proof, because all other evidence suggests otherwise.

I wasnt making an arguement, just saying my views but you always seem to take them so seriously, I wasnt looking for a fight, I just wanted to add my input and perhaps make someone chuckle, but if you're anti-chuckle we can fight right now!

all honesty, i dont care about jacko, i dont care about christianity, i dont care about communism, and i dont care that you disagree with everything i say just cuz I'm the one saying it. you gotta lotta growing up to do.

I know Jep, and I do it in love. Honestly ... out of everybody here, after we have our arguments, you're one of my favorite people at these forums. I value your membership more than many others ... because you're willing to at least get into a dialogue about it. I am just militant with my anti-communism and my arguments against anti-Christians. It's not you that I take a problem with, it's some of your remarks ... but I love them, as I love you. I have to run really quick, brb./

[thecreeper]

if you make these replies any longer, my head's gonna explode. someone just call the other a lying asshole liberal or conservative and be done with it.

[Mike]

We've already done both.

[thecreeper]

oh, alright then carry on.

[heX]

mike is a nigger.

[Plain Old Jane]

although mike, it really is because we each know that the other is wrong. Remind me to buy you a drink if theres ever a meetup.

---
i dont remember if i posted this or not, did you guys hear about that black guy that mailed himself across the united states. like oregon to socal. got caught at the last second cuz he popped out too soon or something and the delivery guy called the cops. you know this means that there's unchecked freight all over and these airport precautions are just bullshit, i mean, cmon, just check the arab guy and lets get to florida already!

"Okay, the following people must be checked... completely random... no profiling at all... Hassin Mussad, Hassen Bin Laid, Kalim Muhammed, and Neil Hyman."

seriously, I ALWAYS get checked, this is Gypsy Profiling!

[Mike]

Isn't that a standup comedians bit?

They actually usually let the Arabs on the plane because the airlines are too scared to get sued. Every time my dad flies ... he gets checked ... because he's just the most white, non-lethal looking person in the world.

I will accept your drink, but anything that I drink from you Jep will be riddled with bitterness. In other news, I saw Guster playw ith the Boston Symphony Orchestra tonight. Cool!

[raublekick]

When I flew to AZ last fall I was pulled aside to be checked. I had long hair then, but other than that I think I look pretty wussy and innocent. But right behind me were two men from somewhere in the middle east who were speaking broken english to each other. Not that I think it's good to assume that they might be suspicious, it just caught me offguard because they would obviously be more suspicious than me.