Pride NYC

[johnny]

Originally Posted by thecreeper

but if i was living in the a bigger city and it was thrown in my face, like raub said, i feel it might be a little annoying.

well i live in a city which has fairly big pride festivities every summer, and if it weren't for the occassional mention of pride week in news reports and newspapers, i probably wouldn't even have known that it was going on. it's not like all of toronto turns into queertown for a week.. the parades and all the other parties mostly happen in and around the gay village area, so it's pretty easy to avoid if you don't want to see/hear about it.

[Plain Old Jane]

I got in from the parade last night around frikkin 9pm, the fair was tubular. Btw, I didnt see that guy but two other guys, hair old, and in lingerie, I hugged one, it was hawt. haha, everyone laughed and had a good time, especially the (dare I say) guys in drag. I think thats a good thing, while there are proportionally more visible forms of fuck-upedness among queer folks, I bet you could find just as much among straight people. From the straight people who are unassuming business suit wearing people in the day, but at night are very very naughty boys who need to be punished. *brandishes whip*

Or the 40 year old men who have a penchant for 20 year old (or even earlier, fucking freaks) and insist when being intimate being called "daddy." Thats far more terrifying and potentially damaging to both people, but you never see it.

How about that maybe-gay guy in the parade that from the front was holding hands with a girl and cheering and was covered in ropes which I found interesting at first, but when he passed us, you could see a FUCK of a lot of whip marks on his back. very unassuming, and rightous fun if you ask me.

Also, I saw the orthodox jewish gay float, which was playing jewish music and everyone was dancing, it was grand.

I think that there are plenty worse things to do than have a gay pride parade. Straight people and black people have affirmation all the time from simply the way they talk, to weddings, to the million man march, to kwanza (whoever the fuck celebrates that.) and valentines day. or just go to the movies, you wont see ANY queer romances. (theres one or two indie ones.)
But my affirmation just happens to be a parade in which a HUGE HAIRY gay guy with "Bear Pride" written all over him slapping a "BRIDE To Be" sticker on me.

I have to say, I was slightly annoyed when I saw the crossdressers, if only cuz I was like, "This? This is whose represnting me?" Fuck it, next year, I'm getting my own float. And this is why theres a parade to make visible the big ole spectrum of gender and orientation, so when joe average meets big gay al at a frat party, he wont immidiate think hes a freak and stab him. (like this fucker, Lil Macho who christine might have heard of, did once when I met him. Not to me, he relayed the story to me.) Even as little visibility as queer people are allowed, its a step in the right direction. It lets people know they exist are people, and folks'll get pissed if they hurt or maim them just as anyone would be for a straight person.

"I think that Gay Pride Parades do nothing but show that they are not "real people.""

Go to one and then say that.

the ONLY person who didnt have a great time and a sore throat by the end of that parade was this asshole on a bike going to everyone and saying: "Gay people are the reason that the twin towers came down. Any idiot can see that. Thank you." and then walking off to accost someone else. THATS damaging, THAT is annoying, THAT is hateful and is what the parade is all about discouraging. Also, two little kids pushed me out of my spot at the front, how about an excuse me, little brats...

I also saw a car with two old men and a plaque towards the back showing that they've been together 60 years and were married in canada. (im not sure if that means they were married for 60 years.)

[Mr Biglesworth]

thank you jep, that's awesome. I love the energy of the whole thing.
Btw I've been following the fate of same-sex marriage legislation and up to now it's been uncertain, as the Conservatives had a few aces up their sleeve to stop or at least delay its passage. But as of last thursday it's all but guaranteed to be passed very shortly. gOh Canada

[Cid]

Straight, white guy pride parade/million man march in Akron next week. Who's in???

[GT2000]

Ok.

[Baboinga]

fyi gay marriage isn't legal in all of canada, it's only legal in one or two provinces. And not my redneck province, our premier states SPECIFICALLY that he would fight the law heatedly to make sure that Alberta doesn't get gay marriage.

[Mike]

I typed a long post in response to Baboinga's reply up there, but realized it was mostly useless ... picking apart various things and making points off of accidental fallacies in the post (I had particular fun with the cancer thing)... But anyway, it was all useless and would have led to just more and more posts about the same thing.

My general point is that homosexuality and heterosexuality are the same thing, in that they involve individuals being sexually attracted to individuals... and there is no difference. If it is not made a public affair, then nobody will ever be judged by that sexuality--at least, today. I think that we've made great strides in moving society towards an ideal of sameness between homosexuals and heterosexuals, because they're at root the same thing... And so I have contention with people who seek to actively separate the two... both the heterosexuals who paint unfair pictures of homosexuals, and then the homosexuals who paint unfair pictures of homosexuals. I then take issue with those homosexuals painting unfair pictures who then turn around and demand blindes and equality in society ... the very society that they are actively seeking to see them as something different from everybody else.

I also have a really big problem with who determines who or why somebody is part of a minority. Minorities tend to be more "who can cry the loudest" as opposed to people who are actually minorities and who are actually discriminated against.

[heX]

omg you are all fighting like a bunch of fags



edit: you fucking fags disgussed me. i hate your limp wrists, your little fag lips.. and your faggy... tight... hard asses...

[Mr Biglesworth]

Originally Posted by Mike

Minorities tend to be more "who can cry the loudest" as opposed to people who are actually minorities and who are actually discriminated against.

Liberals and Conservatives must be the biggest minorities around then!

[Baboinga]

Originally Posted by Mike

If it is not made a public affair, then nobody will ever be judged by that sexuality--at least, today.

What the fuck? This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.
I've been trying to be polite in my responses thus far, but really, I can't even respond to this legibly, because your entire post is bullshit. There is a huge amount of discrimination against gays throughout Canada and the US. If gays didn't have parades, it wouldn't be "Oh, I met a gay guy at work today, what a nice fella" it would be "I met one of those sick fucking AIDS bearers at work, I hope he doesn't talk to me by the watercooler."
It is necessary to have parades and such to show the population, as I said before. You can't just pretend that discrimination doesn't exist because you'd rather there not be a gay pride parade. You're an idiot. Seriously.

I think that we've made great strides in moving society towards an ideal of sameness between homosexuals and heterosexuals, because they're at root the same thing...

Gays can't even get married. Why? Because it's "against" christianity, seems to be the unspoken truth, and christianity is so engulfed in our politics and societal structure that for some reason people continue to support the idea of not letting gays marry or adopt children because of this archaic state. The church is supposed to be separated from the state, but it's not. ATHEISTS can get married, but gays can't? WTF is that? And in a lot of places (mostly rurall, where they have little exposure to gays) the majority opinion is that gays shouldn't be able to marry because marriage is some sacred thing that they think their religion invented, which is bullshit anyway. The union between two people came waaaaaaaaay before Catholics made it into what they did.
Whatever, the point is, that gays are actively discriminated against, and we have taken strides, sure, but we are FAR from having homosexuals being accepted as actively as heterosexuals. The idea of having a heterosexual pride parade is stupid BECAUSE every fucking day for straight people is a pride parade. People openly walk down the street hand in hand, on posters, in advertisements, commercials, books, magazines, everything is straight this and straight that. The cliche story is "boy meets girl" or "adam and eve" or whatever else you want to see it as. When is the last time you saw a mainstream movie that's main characters involve a gay or lesbian couple? I can barely think of any ever. Oh, Kissing Jessica Stein, but she turned out straight in the end. That's a GREAT message.

Anyway, the point is, straight people don't deserve a parade for being straight, because they don't live in a society that stifles their sexuality.

the very society that they are actively seeking to see them as something different from everybody else.

............................
Gay people have sex with the same gender, and they have their own culture. It's something to be proud of. As a society we should celebrate our similarities and our differences. It's like Quebec in Canada, some people think they should just fall in line and stop bitching about losing their culture and being so bitchy about everything. I don't mind that Quebec is like that, because they're the only province left that actively stays bilingual. I'd rather them have their own culture and the rest of Canada have our culture and each learn from each other, than force them to be more like the rest of Canada which way Anglo.

[johnny]

Originally Posted by Baboinga

fyi gay marriage isn't legal in all of canada, it's only legal in one or two provinces. And not my redneck province, our premier states SPECIFICALLY that he would fight the law heatedly to make sure that Alberta doesn't get gay marriage.

i think the bill on same-sex marriage (bill c-38 i think it's called...?) will be passed without much trouble, because the liberals are working with the ndp and the bloc quebecois, so things will be different soon. ralph klein and stephen harper will probably keep on bitching and moaning about it, but they're a pair idiots. (in fact, yesterday stephen harper was saying that if the bill passed it would lack legitimacy because the liberals are working with the bloc, who really have no interest in canada--just quebec. which is somewhat true, but right now they're still all canadians, and harper and the conservatives worked with the bloc to try to topple the government in april and may. i guess it's only lacks legitimacy if somebody other than stephen harper votes with the bloc!)

[Mr Biglesworth]

it's gonna be passed tonight

[johnny]

should provide a good story for night-time newscasters to go on and on about.

[raublekick]

Although I agree that some of Mike's post was a bit... bullshit... I still don't thinkthat kinda stuff is necessary. I live in a very rural conservative area, I'm one of the very few democrats in my town, the rest are bleeding heart conservative republicans. This is not a very gay area. So what was my first experience with a gay person outside of the media? It was when i was 16 and got hired at a job where one of the managers happened to be gay. It wasn't hard to tell that he was gay, but he wasn't so flamboyant that he was annoying.

The point is that I didn't need a parade or any awareness activity to help me become aware and accepting of gays. All I needed was contact with a gay person like I would have with any straight person. THere's no way I'm gonna try to say this is the universal case, because there will always be those who will fear anything out of the norm. But I think a lot of people would benefit more from normal human contact with gays than a parade that they'll probably ignore or be annoyed with.

[Mr Biglesworth]

something nice like that happened in my last year at university. My roommate was a big homophobe, real smart aleck too. Then he befriended this guy steve, who i think he really looked up to. When he found out steve was gay, instead of tossing out his friendship he changed his opinions. He still jokes around about queers and i'm sure he would be damn uncomfortable with alot of gays, but he's softened up.

I'm pro pride because it's alot more fun than anything you hetro stiffs come up with.

[heX]

Originally Posted by Baboinga

Gays can't even get married. Why? Because it's "against" christianity, seems to be the unspoken truth, and christianity is so engulfed in our politics and societal structure that for some reason people continue to support the idea of not letting gays marry or adopt children because of this archaic state.

Originally Posted by Baboinga

The union between two people came waaaaaaaaay before Catholics made it into what they did

Christians or catholics? two different things you can call yourself Christian but not catholic.

new thought:

id love to see one example of a union of a man and a woman that takes place before two believers in God did it.

if you are a Christian you believe in the creation of the world with Adam and Eve. If you're not a Christian looking at history there has always been a belief in a god, the oldest recorded documents showing the Jewish church who believed in a sacred union of a man and a woman referred to as a marriage. marriage was formed by the church like it or not. do i think people just hooked up with out being married back then, well yeah. was that refereed to as a holy union of two people? well no. as far as what we call marriage today, it came down right through the Jewish church. it is a tradition from the church that is believed to be a commandment of God. so if you don't believe in God then why would you wanna follow his commandments? you are letting yourself be manipulated by the church if you feel it is that important to be married.

Is it a matter of expectance by the rest of the world? You want everyone to validate your feelings for your girl/boy as being equal to there feelings for there wife/husband? Thats fine but marriage is something that comes from the church. The problem here is that the state is interfering with the church. The church, not the state is what kept records and preformed marriages. Looking at the history of the world it is fairly a new thing that the state is the one in charge of marriages. For example i have a family tree dated back to the 1700s starting 3 generations into Germany directly to me that my family has been working on for a while. the records of marriage are not found in the German governments vaults, but in the Lutheran church's books. Marriage is the creation of the church from a atheists point of view, and a creation of God from a Christians point of view. If you are gay and consider yourself Christian and feel you should be married then this would be a completely different argument. As far as Atheists being married goes, that also came around after marriage was taken over by the state in the church they would not preform marriages unless the two people would at least fake there beliefs. By todays standards of what marriage is, fuck it let gay people get married no one even takes marriage seriously for what it was intended.


edit: not to play my best friends are gay card.. but my best friend at work is gay, i have nothing but respect for him and love hanging out with him. even was about to go to the gay pride parade with him.

[Plain Old Jane]

marriage, before it was called that, was an advent of sultans and prussian princes who kept a menagerie of women that wouldnt sleep with anyone else, as a matter of protection against disease that spread easily through the hetero and homo sexual peasents as there was no marriage. (fun factoid: the rulers also HIRED castrato men to guard their palaces. No sex, but room, board, and respect (maybe) maybe that was a big deal back then.)

Marriage was made out of nessesity before public sex education was invented, out of fear, not for love or anything. And with the spread of aids through the homosexual community, that kind of protection is just what homosexual people need right now.

Its not strictly christian, it wasnt made by believers or god, its not only between a man and a woman, its now a bond of love, and you can better fucking believe there was horny have mores before there was the advent of god, morals, and whats in the good book.

hex, that thin line between church and state is ALSO a new thing, so just because there arent records doesnt mean thats how it has ALWAYS been.

in conclusion, Marriage was never an advent of god or the church, just of horny (hetero and homo sexual) males who were in charge and didnt want their royal dick to fall off with the syph.

[heX]

Originally Posted by Plain Old Jane

marriage, before it was called that, was an advent of sultans and prussian princes who kept a menagerie of women that wouldnt sleep with anyone else, as a matter of protection against disease that spread easily through the hetero and homo sexual peasents as there was no marriage. (fun factoid: the rulers also HIRED castrato men to guard their palaces. No sex, but room, board, and respect (maybe) maybe that was a big deal back then.)

Marriage was made out of nessesity before public sex education was invented, out of fear, not for love or anything. And with the spread of aids through the homosexual community, that kind of protection is just what homosexual people need right now.

Its not strictly christian, it wasnt made by believers or god, its not only between a man and a woman, its now a bond of love, and you can better fucking believe there was horny have mores before there was the advent of god, morals, and whats in the good book.

hex, that thin line between church and state is ALSO a new thing, so just because there arent records doesnt mean thats how it has ALWAYS been.

in conclusion, Marriage was never an advent of god or the church, just of horny (hetero and homo sexual) males who were in charge and didnt want their royal dick to fall off with the syph.

omg your talking out of your ass jep. tell you what you show me the first doccumented marriage you can find that wasnt done by the spiritual leaders of the time and ill show you where you made something up or didnt do enough research.

"Marriage was made out of nessesity before public sex education was invented, out of fear, not for love or anything. And with the spread of aids through the homosexual community, that kind of protection is just what homosexual people need right now. "

since aids didnt come around untill after the vaccine for polio was developed are you implying marraige came after that? furthermore what are you even basing thats what marriage was intended for? you are just saying what seems to make sense in your head nothing that you know to be fact.

[Plain Old Jane]

omg, I'm not playing this game anymore hex, you provide evidence that marriage was created by the almighty, and I'll gladly go scour the earth for evidence that your a stupid prick who should learn to listen to logic and not the priest that touched you when you were little... i mean, evidence that proves my point.

::has a migraine::

[Plain Old Jane]

::and is going to go play some Xenosaga::