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06-16-2005, 04:50 AM | #21 |
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"Ladies and gentleman of the jury. This, is Chewbacca."
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06-16-2005, 07:32 AM | #22 | |
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06-16-2005, 04:45 PM | #23 | |
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06-16-2005, 06:59 PM | #24 |
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i really didnt doubt he would get out of this. he's famous, and no matter how much money he's allegedly lost, he can still afford the best lawyers. and it doesn't help that the prosecutors presented a story full of holes with testimony from people who changed their stories on more than one occasion.
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06-16-2005, 10:46 PM | #25 | |
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My gripe is that the major public opinion is "Michael Jackson is a weirdo, so he just has to be guilty." This is what I dislike about much of this countries systems. A public opinion != the right opinion. |
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06-16-2005, 11:39 PM | #26 |
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Well the illegal thing is sexual misconduct (in this case, any sexual conduct at all). Many will argue that the highest human pursuit is love, and humans are polyamorous, they are capable of loving anything. Pedophilia, simply a love for children, should not be considered a surprising phenomenon. Children (yes, i know many would disagree, and when you're stuck on a flight with one, you'll definitely disagree) are fantasic creatures, a often unnoticed oddity in the human phenomenon, unspoiled by experiences, not old enough for the many neuroses of the average adult to have formed. I could easily see myself being enchanted by children.
In this sense, we have no right to condemn someone for following their own spiritual calling. It seems the children loved Michael, too, and not just because he bribed them to be around. Now I'm not arguing that he's not weak, pathetic, lonely, fucked up, sad, and needy. He may well be all those things. And that's why the mixture of a genuine love of children with a weak or warped sense of self, and perhaps unresolved sexual issues (i'm bullshitting together a psychology here but i think it's not invalid) is dangerous because self satisfaction through children gets confused with any occaisional sexual impulses he gets. I personally think it's likely that in moments of closeness with children, he has touched them inapropriately and irresponsibly. I believe the state has the right and the duty to protect and act responsibly on behalf of children. If the court had convicted him (had there been more solid evidence) I would not think it an ethnocentric outrage where he was being persecuted for loving children. Rather the court would be acting on a deeply valid social norm, that children should not be exploited as objects of pleasure. However, in the case of the children being subjects of amazement, it's not impossible that you would want to sleep with them and they would be just fine with it. And violating this social norm is just too bad for those who hold it. |
06-17-2005, 12:04 AM | #27 | ||
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06-17-2005, 12:19 AM | #28 |
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I think Neil hit a lot of points that I agree with. As far as public opinion goes, this is how I look at it: The majority can believe anything, but just because it's the majority does not mean it should be accepted. If the majority thought that molesting children was A-OK definitely does not mean it is right. In most cases the majority decision is fine, or at least acceptable. But there is always the possibility that the miniority has, in fact, the more valid opinion. It's all about stepping back and thinking, if only for a short amount of time, that your opinion could be wrong.
In order for something to be considered "wrong" or "right" there has to be some sort of opposite or reason for it. In this case, why is touching children wrong? Because you've been told that it is? Think about how touching children can be "right" and then you'll have a more valid answer. So in this perspective think about how simply sleeping with children is both "wrong" and "right". I don't really know much to prove either, but I've read about positives and negatives for both cases. Another aspect is that nothing is absolutely wrong or right. If you had to molest a child to save five other children, would you? In this case should you be prosecuted if you choose to save the five children? Granted, much of my ramblings have little to do with this specific case, but I think it's something extremely important for social and individual growth. |
06-17-2005, 08:11 AM | #29 |
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if nothing else, it makes for goood tv (i added an extra 'o' because it's so good):
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/267...&htv=12&htv=12 |
06-17-2005, 09:14 AM | #30 |
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"If there is no right and wrong, no truth, and no justice, then we cannot have a court system that judges people. That court system is dictated by ideology and public opinion."
Sucks, doesn't it. |
06-17-2005, 10:57 PM | #31 |
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Yeah, raub, I didn't want to sound like I thought that public opinion determines right and wrong, because, as some have probably noticed, I'm an absolutist ... and ... an absolute right and wrong cannot be that of public opinion.
I do think, however, that our courts are dictated by the opinion of people... which is largely in tune with public opinion... though, judicial activism seems to undermine that for both good and bad. |
06-18-2005, 12:38 AM | #32 |
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word, i wish i could talke some morwe about this right now. meet me int he drunk thread in.. howebver long it take me to dint it!
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06-18-2005, 01:20 AM | #33 | |
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I think our court system is more complex then being suck ass and biased towards public opinion.
While it is true, there are laws that protect everyone because occasionally, the public doesnt know its ass from a hole in the ground. Mikey took advantage of everything he could, this is not a shortcoming on his part, it just means our system isnt perfect. For instance, for every 2 latino or black people in jail for drug related crimes, theres 1 white person for the same crimes, and for every 2 latino and black person out actively doing drug related activities, there are 5 white people, free to do those same ones. There IS a bias towards public opinion, but instead of being a part of the public, get in there and change it, thats the beauty of america, you can change shit, may cost you a lot, but it works. A communist economy/socialist civil rights democratic-republic law making might work better for in the long run tho, if that makes any sense... Quote:
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06-18-2005, 02:30 AM | #34 |
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ = innocent
some one got paied off you fuxorz |
06-19-2005, 03:31 AM | #35 | ||
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A communist economy/socialist civil rights democratic-republic law making might work better for in the long run tho, if that makes any sense... And it would be better in the long run if we could all fly, and had ice cream makers in our hands, with free electricity, and money making machines that magically did not cause inflation. We have civil rights, we have socialist policies, and we have democratic-republic law making. THere is zero evidence that a communist economy produces anything but starvation and mass murder, however. --edit-- Good zing at the end, btw. |
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06-19-2005, 10:44 AM | #36 | |
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in my brief history of hanging out with black people at college, none of them liked being called 'african american'.
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06-20-2005, 05:25 PM | #37 | |
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Though, you're right. It's usually more Liberal White people and Leftist Jews who push the African American bull shit. I always say that I'll call a Black person African American when everybody else refers to me as European American... though I know that if any black person ever called me European American, I'd just call them a nigger. ------- In other news, Ralph Nader used the word Nigger in an interview, and PC libs are all pissed at him saying how it's the destruction of the universe. They're only pissed because Nader pwned them in 2000 ... so it is the civic duty of every liberal democrat to smear him as much as possible (if this forum were more politically active, there'd be somebody replying to this about how much of a crazy person he is. He wasn't thought of as crazy until the Dems told us he was right before 2000). |
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06-20-2005, 10:06 PM | #38 |
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mikes a crazy nigger
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06-20-2005, 10:22 PM | #39 | ||||
i hate vagina
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06-20-2005, 10:40 PM | #40 | |||
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