Current economic woes - Page 2

raditz · 05-24-2008, 12:30 PM

lol johnny, why are you so worked up about it? we're on the verge right now of finding other ways... what makes you think that in 100 years we're gonna be fucked? 100 years ago the horse was the number one way to get around - look at all the stuff that's happened since 1900. i'm not worried about oil 100 years from now in the least. right now it's the largest and most efficent source of energy we have, and i hear all the time about how they're finding more and more of it in different spots. it's all over canada and mexico. we've got it alaska, off the coast of florida, in the great lakes - none of which we're allowed to touch. obviously south america and the middle east have plenty.

there are people holding this country back and it pisses me off. we're not allowed to use our own oil or build refineries - and we're not allowed to go nuclear either when every other country has deemed it a safe clean way of producing alot of power. they won't even let us use coal anymore. we've tried building windmills but the very people who won't let us drill or build say that they're an eyesore .... it's all one big mess of nonsense. now i don't expect you to understand how i feel - you're not an american. canada is a fine country, sure, and i'm sure if you thought that your government was lacking in common sense then you'd get frustrated too. i see where things are headed and it makes me sad, and it makes me sick to think that people are letting it happen.

johnny · 05-24-2008, 11:10 PM

oh, i'm sure the canadian government is lacking common sense too. just on different agendas/policies/whatevers

don't even get me started about the canadian conservative party...

i guess the reason i'm so worked up is because it seems like a genuinely important and pressing issue to me. to be so blasé about it, and assume that within X# of years things will work themselves out, feels like a much too complacent approach. how many of us are reliant on oil and natural gas..? and nobody seems at all interested in preparing for a day when we can't rely on those resources anymore. after all, there isn't an endless supply. you seem to be taking for granted the fact that technological advancements will just happen--poof! like magic--simply because they've happened before. i don't think citing what has happened in the last century can guarantee anything for the next, necessarily.

heX · 05-24-2008, 11:17 PM

you're acting like we'd be consuming more resources. rads not proposing using all the resources we currently are, then using US owned resources on top of that. its a replacement effect not a cumulative one.

johnny · 05-25-2008, 02:40 AM

but do you honestly think that if you could use u.s. resources (at a lower cost, 'cause that's what rad seems to be going for) people wouldn't consume more, simply because they could afford to again? ultimately, it all seems to be about money -- so if gas is cheaper, i have a feeling that most people will enable themselves to use more of it. humans are wasteful!

heX · 05-26-2008, 05:25 AM

well if thats your argument for why we should use foreign resources, wouldn't it make more sense to regulate consumption? im not saying i even agree with your presumption, but if the only good reason not to use are own resources is because it would be cheap and that means we can afford more of it. wouldnt the logical thing be to limit how much can be used rather than paying inflated rates to foreign countries?

raditz · 05-26-2008, 07:29 AM

global warming nuts are going to start trying to do exactly that. start saving up for your "carbon credits" people ;-)

heX · 05-26-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raditz

global warming nuts are going to start trying to do exactly that. start saving up for your "carbon credits" people ;-)

i wasn't saying we should limit consumption, for the record. i was just saying if it was between that and 4 dollars a gallon to terrorist, i would choose that.

Liss · 05-27-2008, 01:37 AM

I don't like spending a fortune on gas either (especially as a bi-annual cross-country driver and a resident of Los Angeles County.) but Johnny's right--this is the first time the world has recognized that they should limit their driving, buy more conservative vehicles, carpool, utilize public transport etc, at least on a wide scale. High prices, like it or not, are the only way people will be driven to actually switch to alternative fuel sources eventually, in my opinion, and who's to say that despite being close to alternatives we will turn to them without selfish motivation? When electric cars emerged, just a thin slice of the population bought into them, same with smart cars, etc...it's just not as convenient or as comfortable as a gasoline powered Navigator.

It's not as much about the environment as it is about the fact that fossil fuels are not never-ending. What we have in North America is no where near what the middle east has. We need to make the switch now.

I don't know if that actually gets my point across. It's bedtime.

Oh, and Hex, I am not a cunt.

heX · 05-27-2008, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liss

It's not as much about the environment as it is about the fact that fossil fuels are not never-ending. What we have in North America is no where near what the middle east has. We need to make the switch now.

I don't know if that actually gets my point across. It's bedtime.

neither you or johnny have explained why the only possible way to limit consumption is to pay overpay foreigners. this is really two different discussions being balled up into one.

if you feel high prices are necessary otherwise we will consume too much, then that is a round about way of regulated gas. it also is killing our economy. having a debate about using a credit system or not would be where you could argue that americans consume too much natural resources. overpaying for oil is not a propper way to control consumption.

Oh, and Liss, yeah you are.

raublekick · 05-27-2008, 05:16 PM

I don't think anyone's saying we should raise prices to cause people to limit driving. But I think it's pretty obvious that most Americans don't give a shit until it starts hitting their wallet, and these high prices at the pump are causing more people to be concerned.

heX · 05-27-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raublekick

I don't think anyone's saying we should raise prices to cause people to limit driving. But I think it's pretty obvious that most Americans don't give a shit until it starts hitting their wallet, and these high prices at the pump are causing more people to be concerned.

maybe. doesnt change that we could be paying alot less for gas.

raublekick · 05-28-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heX

maybe. doesnt change that we could be paying alot less for gas.

and we could be paying for a lot less gas, just sayin'

heX · 05-28-2008, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raublekick

and we could be paying for a lot less gas, just sayin'

how about both.

raublekick · 05-29-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heX

how about both.

sure. we either have to increase supply or decrease demand. increasing supply is a lot of dirty work for oil companies who are already making tons of money. decreasing demand is a lot of clean work that opens up new job opportunities in a field that is relatively new.

raditz · 05-29-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raublekick

sure. we either have to increase supply or decrease demand. increasing supply is a lot of dirty work for oil companies who are already making tons of money. decreasing demand is a lot of clean work that opens up new job opportunities in a field that is relatively new.

actually the oil companies have been trying to build and develop new refineries and oil wells for years and years, but the environmentalists won't let them. "big oil" isn't making more of a profit now than it ever has, and building new refineries and pumps would create new jobs while lowering the price of gasoline drastically.

raublekick · 05-30-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raditz

actually the oil companies have been trying to build and develop new refineries and oil wells for years and years, but the environmentalists won't let them. "big oil" isn't making more of a profit now than it ever has, and building new refineries and pumps would create new jobs while lowering the price of gasoline drastically.

oh ok

If they can't make new refineries, and they have record profits with nothing to spend them on... how about invest and redirect into future energy possibilities. Why can't they be an ENERGY company instead of an OIL company?

Liss · 05-31-2008, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raditz

actually the oil companies have been trying to build and develop new refineries and oil wells for years and years, but the environmentalists won't let them. "big oil" isn't making more of a profit now than it ever has, and building new refineries and pumps would create new jobs while lowering the price of gasoline drastically.

Oil companies are also responsible for the failure to make fuel cell powered vehicles a daily American tool. We have the technology to make the change to renewable fuel--hydrogen--right now--but the oil companies have bought and now own every patent.

I mean, if it's about creating new job opportunities, how about overhauling its entirety?

Liss · 05-31-2008, 02:13 AM

PS. I had to pay 4.20 for gas today and saw regular for as high as 4.29. In Burbank, an extension of LA, the lowest I saw today was 4.27 while it ranged into the 4.30s.

Only yesterday, the same gas station I went to was at 4.07.

GT2000 · 05-31-2008, 02:29 PM

It's in the 3.70s here, I paid 3.79 the other day.

heX · 06-01-2008, 06:45 AM

We've been around 4.08+ for a while. i disagree with brandon. oil companies have gone out of their way to avoid more refineries. it creates an artificial demand, allowing them to make more profit.

If I had it my way, we'd drill our own oil, as well as build more refineries. I want to get off our dependency of oil. if the only way that this can be done is by conserving how much is used, so be it. I would rather explore other avenues on how to push innovation ahead in reusable resources, but we can discuss that after we stop funding the economy of other countries ahead of our own.

I want to have a cleaner environment just as much as most people and more than quite a few. Over paying foreign countries and big businesses is not the way to do it. For the most part I agree with liss, johnny, raub, and all the other people that think we are wasteful and it needs to change. I just think a you are considering the wrong tools to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by liss

Oil companies are also responsible for the failure to make fuel cell powered vehicles a daily American tool.

its not their job retard

05-27-2008, 05:16 PM	#30
raublekick Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Lancastuh, PA Posts: 1,678	I don't think anyone's saying we should raise prices to cause people to limit driving. But I think it's pretty obvious that most Americans don't give a shit until it starts hitting their wallet, and these high prices at the pump are causing more people to be concerned. __________________ http://www.good-evil.net slap that bitch, sell her coke

05-31-2008, 02:29 PM	#39
GT2000 Playing God @ Your Xpense Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Va Beach, Va Posts: 2,040	It's in the 3.70s here, I paid 3.79 the other day. __________________ Hop in, strap down, and hold on tight.

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05-24-2008, 12:30 PM	#21
raditz Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 201	lol johnny, why are you so worked up about it? we're on the verge right now of finding other ways... what makes you think that in 100 years we're gonna be fucked? 100 years ago the horse was the number one way to get around - look at all the stuff that's happened since 1900. i'm not worried about oil 100 years from now in the least. right now it's the largest and most efficent source of energy we have, and i hear all the time about how they're finding more and more of it in different spots. it's all over canada and mexico. we've got it alaska, off the coast of florida, in the great lakes - none of which we're allowed to touch. obviously south america and the middle east have plenty. there are people holding this country back and it pisses me off. we're not allowed to use our own oil or build refineries - and we're not allowed to go nuclear either when every other country has deemed it a safe clean way of producing alot of power. they won't even let us use coal anymore. we've tried building windmills but the very people who won't let us drill or build say that they're an eyesore .... it's all one big mess of nonsense. now i don't expect you to understand how i feel - you're not an american. canada is a fine country, sure, and i'm sure if you thought that your government was lacking in common sense then you'd get frustrated too. i see where things are headed and it makes me sad, and it makes me sick to think that people are letting it happen.

05-24-2008, 11:10 PM	#22
johnny Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Upper Canada Posts: 1,276	oh, i'm sure the canadian government is lacking common sense too. just on different agendas/policies/whatevers don't even get me started about the canadian conservative party... i guess the reason i'm so worked up is because it seems like a genuinely important and pressing issue to me. to be so blasé about it, and assume that within X# of years things will work themselves out, feels like a much too complacent approach. how many of us are reliant on oil and natural gas..? and nobody seems at all interested in preparing for a day when we can't rely on those resources anymore. after all, there isn't an endless supply. you seem to be taking for granted the fact that technological advancements will just happen--poof! like magic--simply because they've happened before. i don't think citing what has happened in the last century can guarantee anything for the next, necessarily.

05-24-2008, 11:17 PM	#23
heX Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 937	you're acting like we'd be consuming more resources. rads not proposing using all the resources we currently are, then using US owned resources on top of that. its a replacement effect not a cumulative one.

05-25-2008, 02:40 AM	#24
johnny Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Upper Canada Posts: 1,276	but do you honestly think that if you could use u.s. resources (at a lower cost, 'cause that's what rad seems to be going for) people wouldn't consume more, simply because they could afford to again? ultimately, it all seems to be about money -- so if gas is cheaper, i have a feeling that most people will enable themselves to use more of it. humans are wasteful!

05-26-2008, 05:25 AM	#25
heX Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 937	well if thats your argument for why we should use foreign resources, wouldn't it make more sense to regulate consumption? im not saying i even agree with your presumption, but if the only good reason not to use are own resources is because it would be cheap and that means we can afford more of it. wouldnt the logical thing be to limit how much can be used rather than paying inflated rates to foreign countries?

05-26-2008, 07:29 AM	#26
raditz Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 201	global warming nuts are going to start trying to do exactly that. start saving up for your "carbon credits" people ;-)

05-27-2008, 01:37 AM	#28
Liss hex can see my boobs Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	I don't like spending a fortune on gas either (especially as a bi-annual cross-country driver and a resident of Los Angeles County.) but Johnny's right--this is the first time the world has recognized that they should limit their driving, buy more conservative vehicles, carpool, utilize public transport etc, at least on a wide scale. High prices, like it or not, are the only way people will be driven to actually switch to alternative fuel sources eventually, in my opinion, and who's to say that despite being close to alternatives we will turn to them without selfish motivation? When electric cars emerged, just a thin slice of the population bought into them, same with smart cars, etc...it's just not as convenient or as comfortable as a gasoline powered Navigator. It's not as much about the environment as it is about the fact that fossil fuels are not never-ending. What we have in North America is no where near what the middle east has. We need to make the switch now. I don't know if that actually gets my point across. It's bedtime. Oh, and Hex, I am not a cunt.

05-31-2008, 02:13 AM	#38
Liss hex can see my boobs Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 749	PS. I had to pay 4.20 for gas today and saw regular for as high as 4.29. In Burbank, an extension of LA, the lowest I saw today was 4.27 while it ranged into the 4.30s. Only yesterday, the same gas station I went to was at 4.07.