[Mike]

Originally Posted by Plain Old Jane

you really need to put two and two together here, I sort of assumed you'd see the long term effects of communism. I had hoped to avoid these long posts, so cummunism is defined as: Communism is an economic and political system based on the principle "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need. " It stresses that the control of the means of producing economic goods in a society should reside in the hands of those who invest their labor for production. In its ideal form, social classes cease to exist, there is no coercive governmental structures, and everyone lives in abundance without supervision from a ruling class. Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels popularized this theory in their 1848 Communist Manifesto.

We all know the definition and the history of Communism ... so it's really useless to list it and expect anybody to take this as having any sort of chance at being a veritable method of society. Marx also offered six predictions in the Manifesto, all of which were wrong. Why under any circumstances would the rest of his work be somehow good, when under practical application it results in starvation and mass murder, and under philosophical observation, it is riddled with holes? Furthermore, when ALL of the predictions of the text (1] The Revolution would occur in his lifetime; 2] The Revolution would occur in a heavily industrialized country; 3] THe revolution would occur in Germany; 4] Under Capitalism, working days would get longer; 5] Under capitalism, conditions for laborers would get worse; 6] Under Capitalism, laborers would continue to earn less and less) ARE WRONG ... why is it that we feel compelled to give credence to the rest of it? So the text is wrong, the practical application fails worse than any economic plan in modern history, and the philosophical application does not righly apply to the human condition. I don't understand the addiction that people have with communism and socialism.

Read as it is, capital is owned by the government and the people live with relativly the same amount of financial power as the next person, hence no social structure. We can see in our own culture, bits of communism.

You cannot have "bits of communism." That's anti-communist. Or are you going to give the history of the Manifesto and then not mention the parts where Marx is completely against labor unions and a give and take of socialist policies?

People who have the same amount of money live in similar environments. West Beverly people live in lavish houses, with pools and never go hungry. Po' black folks in the projects who make 300 bucks a month live in shitty holes in the sides of buildings and have hep C.

The number of "poor" people in America is inflated. 98% of Americans have color telivision. 83% have air conditioning. Less than 1% of Americans, in the 2000 census, said that they feel that they don't have enough food sometimes.

I'm saying that a communistic economy with the financial backing of a country like... saudi arabia, would be beneficial for all its citizens instead of the to and fro with capitalism.

Saudi Arabia? One of the richest governments in the world? Employ Communism in Saudi Arabia and the country falls to shambles. There one of the few countries in the Middle East with a stable economy.

I was agreeing with you... dip shit...

Then why would you say that we need to change race and eliminate the races? Does this go along with your eliminate the classes idea, the eliminate society idea, and then, finally, eliminate the citizen idea? Well, I guess if your goal is to eliminate human beings, Communism would be the best approach.

HOWEVER, race is not a prereq for future actions, the problem lies in people who think it is, racists. So instead of changing racists, change the race. I say that cuz I think its right and I'd really like to date an eskimo.

I'm all for getting rid of Racists, but that means all of your friends in the NAACP and just about 30% of the Liberals in America.

i didnt say christians murdered christians, tho they do plenty of that now.
so you're saying the ideals are to blame for communisms downfall?
can I see a study on that, pooky?

That the ideals of Communism are it's downfall? You need not a study... Take a look at Soviet, Chinese, and North Korean agricultural policies from their respective histories. There's hundreds of books written on this topic, even many by self-serving liberals. I'll get a book list for you in a little bit.

I said the image, the ideals are made up by the people, and they imprint them on their messiahs or rather their views of their messiahs, not the other way around.

You do realize when somebody says "The Image of Christ" they are referring to something completely different than "A painting of Jesus."

Jee-Zeus Christ ::laughs::
I'm so not using this as a reason, I just find it funny.

Um ... ok? There are images of Charlie Chapman that look startlingly like Adolf Hitler. Don't you find that funny, shouldn't you post that instead?

[seriousness]Though all these crap religions that have ties to messiahs and all powerful gods and commandments and precepts, books, floods, and all manners of other BS have their roots in the crib of humanity and all the wars and persecutions that took place 4000 years ago. you can trace the flood stories of most religions back to babylons libraries and babylons conquering ofall the tribes and monarchies there, you can trace the idea of Sons Of God back to zoroastrainism. you can trace the idea of holy war way the fuck back, to even before zoroastrainism cuz zealots cant stand the fact that everyone doesnt think like them. and before you ask me to prove it, why dont you start coming up with reasons why my reasons are bunk instead of asking me to prove them all the time, sometimes you can be really annoying.[/seriousness]

These "crap religions" have their roots in the birth of humanity? So what exactly makes them "crap" religions? Because they all share similar stories?

"Idea of Sons of God." There is a stark difference between Son of God and Son of Man. I could be considered a Son of God. There is only one Son of Man.

"and before I ask you to prove it, why don't I start coming up with reasons why your reasons are bunk, instead of asking me to prove it."

First, I dejustify your claims all the time ... just about in every conversation we have. I really don't have to though, because the burden of proof is on you. Furthermore, I'm not going to aks you to "prove" that they have those ties because it's common knowledge. When you make assinine assertions about Communism and that all of these religions that have ties to humanity's roots are "crap," it is your duty to supply the proof, because all other evidence suggests otherwise.

I wasnt making an arguement, just saying my views but you always seem to take them so seriously, I wasnt looking for a fight, I just wanted to add my input and perhaps make someone chuckle, but if you're anti-chuckle we can fight right now!

all honesty, i dont care about jacko, i dont care about christianity, i dont care about communism, and i dont care that you disagree with everything i say just cuz I'm the one saying it. you gotta lotta growing up to do.

I know Jep, and I do it in love. Honestly ... out of everybody here, after we have our arguments, you're one of my favorite people at these forums. I value your membership more than many others ... because you're willing to at least get into a dialogue about it. I am just militant with my anti-communism and my arguments against anti-Christians. It's not you that I take a problem with, it's some of your remarks ... but I love them, as I love you. I have to run really quick, brb./