Current economic woes
 

So how is everybody handling things with the jump in prices.. not just the gas, but with everything out there going up. Gas prices here are in the mid 3's, which I know isn't too bad compared to some places, but that's because the living costs are higher in those places, so it's basically the same as people in Cali paying $4+.

Driving less, walking/biking more? I can't, nothing is in walking distance for me, and work is in the next city over so biking would be.. dumb.

"Stimulus" checks are in the mail, I think we get ours this week or next, what are you using it on?

Ours is going into savings, it will be stimulating our personal economy.

Gas seems about the same as you. Like you, there isn't much in walking distance. The grocery store is close enough, and I'll probably start walking there. Work is close enough that I probably could bike, but I need to stay fresh and clean which will NOT happen if I bike...

I've been spending money in ways that I probably shouldn't lately, but I'm kind of starting to slow down not just because we're in a slump, but because I spend too much god damned money on stupid stuff.

i noticed just prices of food in general are awful. i usually go to the grocery store once a month and buy most stuff at once and its been near 150+ bucks, and sure its a decent amount of stuff, but my god, i swear this cost half this price a year or so ago...

I bike or walk everywhere so gas prices don't affect me there. I recently payed into a community supported farm where I get a weekly share of their produce. You pay at the beginning of the summer and I understand it's a good amount of food, so I should be getting the majority of my groceries from there (gonna have to learn how to cook some different veggies). They use draft horses, not tractors, so they're not affected by fuel prices either.

if those tree huggin assholes would let us drill our own oil it wouldn't be so bad, and at least we wouldn't be supporting some shit country while ours is going down the tube

RADITZ '08: ASSHOLES BACK TO SHIT COUNTRY!

actually i think your country is the shit country now! sucks for you :)

Yeah, but we're going to take everyone else down with us.. so sucks to be you! I've been saying, we need to start drilling in Alaska, fuck the national wildlife refuge, or whatever it is (besides, if we can drill oil from the bottom of the ocean without tooo many bad occurrences, I think we can drill through some ice).

Really China is the asshole country that's taking everyone down. Sure, America made some pretty big mistakes. But we were pioneers and our mistakes are to be learned from, not emulated. China used to be filled with bikes, but now lots more people drive cars, and not good cars, old crappy cars. But China thinks they have every right to be an industrialized nation. Fair enough, but at least look at how fast we're sinking (all the good tech industries are moving away, take advantage of that rising nations uh durr!!!)

Our failing economy has a lot more to it than just our unwillingness to drill oil in our own backyard. We, more than ever, are stuck in our ways. How much innovation was born in the U.S.? LOTS! We could have had electric cars since the 70s, but people liked Camaros. And now it's SUVs. But now we see those industries moving to other countries. Japan has the car market down. Germany has the solar and wind power market down. The middle east as a whole has the oil market down. We let shit slip through our fingers because we take our personal liberties a little too seriously.

"But I have every right to drive an SUV!" Yeah? Well you're gonna be the demise of this country by keeping antiquated technology in fashion while other opportunities go right out the window, so fuck you!

There's a sales contest going on at work this year, with names going into a drawing for an '08 mercury mariner hybrid. If I were to win, I plan on selling it to get the Mustang I've been wanting.:applause:

Cost of living in California means nothing for the unemployed, and right now there is no job to be found. They've laid off hundreds of teachers and professors despite 40+ classroom sizes, etc, and nobody in the state is hiring because they can't afford to. I couldn't even find a bartending/waitressing job! And with gas getting so high (I live in the suburbs and had to pay 3.99 last week...you should see the gas prices in downtown LA and San Fran), people are getting desperate. I'm moving back to Alabama for the summer, then hopefully out of the country...(although even then I'm screwed because of the worth of the dollar.)

I don't think the problem is with where we drill, necessarily. Alaska doesn't have enough oil to support this country for very long. I think the problem is more, yea, in personal choices. On any given day I drive into LA or Riverside or San Diego or Pasadena, there are hundreds and hundreds of Navigators, Explorers, Excursions, F150s, etc...with ONE person inside, driving to work. It takes a hundred bucks for these people to fill their tanks and they burn every gallon in three days. People drive their kids around the block to school instead of walking with them. People drive to the neighborhood gym. People drive three blocks to work. It's ridiculous.

Great doc if you get the chance:
http://www.radiantcitymovie.com/

how about fuck drilling for oil in a national wildlife refuge, and find ways to be less dependent on nonrenewable resources? as raub has mentioned, there has been ample opportunity over the past few decades for major advancements and innovations -- better late than never, right? drilling for oil in alaska is nothing more than a band-aid solution. how long will it be good for? how many more years before there's more discussion of economic woes, oil/gasoline shortages, etc? and when that happens, what can you do? not a fucking lot!

(not that canadians are any better off. i'm just sayin'..)

I'm pretty sure we won't see huge gains in Americans using "greener" technology until there is some sort of government enforcement, as dumb as it sounds, but you know most Americans aren't going to do that shit on their own. As a nation in whole, we hate change. Not to mention at the rate of the technology coming along, it's going to be a while before we see any big changes. The state power company here is in a project with other companies building wind farms in the mid-west to send power this way over the grid, ok, that helps a little. Not everyone wants to get hybrids, because they aren't saving that much on gas, and since they cost a couple/few grand, sometimes 5 grand plus more, that's something to stop a lot of people. Electric hybrids? I don't know too much about them since we don't have many around, not a fan of plugging in a car though, and I'm sure they still use a good bit of energy anyways, I don't know though on this one.

Here's a real hybrid for all you fuckers.

http://gas2.org/2008/05/14/a-truck-t...-with-garbage/

i heard them talking about this on the radio today at work and estimations right now are that there's enough oil and natural gas on U.S. land to last us for over 100 years without buying anything from a foreign market.

Venezuela owns the gas used in the Citgo chain of gas stations. They provide gasoline for their country at a whopping 12 cents a gallon - http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

Not only are we paying alot more to buy from foreign countries, we're supporting jerks like Hugo Chavez -

http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...go_boycott.htm


btw... everyone in Venezuela drives SUV's and HUMMER's

what irritates me is that i think it's possible that these "big changes" could have already happened if the world (not just the u.s. and a.) had placed more of a focus on renewable resources a few decades ago. i mean, do we really have to wait until the last-minute-total-desperation sort of scenario to happen? :/

and rad, sure, if there are 100 years worth of oil and natural gas on u.s. land that's great! providing that that's accurate, it'll get you through your lifetime -- but then.. what? doesn't that feel really nearsighted to you? of course we could hope that those 100 years would buy time to continue developing alternate/green/renewable technologies, but if people don't feel any pressure to do anything about it now, can we be certain that that extra time won't just be squandered? or you could just move to venezuela and start paying 12 cents per gallon 8P

I think this hundred years you mention is our own oil reserve. There are a few hundred barrels of oil added to underground reserve areas every day. They are there in case of a catastrophe though, if history proves anything it's that we need reserves of natural resources, like clean water. Besides, you think if the government said, okay guys, we got enough to last 100 years, everyone use it carefully...there wouldn't be a mad scramble to stock-pile gas? The prices would shoot through the roof.

Johnny's right. Human beings are the most wasteful creatures. It goes beyond electric cars and solar energy though. I mean, come on, we just now figured out that we should recycle plastic bottles...in California, recycling is totally the new chic trend, you know.

I was in Los Angeles yesterday. Gas was at an average of 4.09, but I saw it as high as 4.16. I myself paid 3.99 in the suburbs. It's going to keep climbing. We've dug ourselves so deeply into this hole that there is no light for miles. Except the dim light from our natural gas powered lanterns, of course. I do hope though that we can do a better job for our (eventual) children than the generations before did for us.

1. the oil is in the ground

2. in 100 years i think we'll have figured out alternative energies .... you guys missed my point entirely heh

3. no i don't care about ppl 100 years from now

liss, youre a cunt. johnny, who the fuck cares what you have to say. is canada even recognized by the UN?

2: gee, that's reassuring (that you think everything will be figured out). no sense of urgency or anything though, right? more concerned about pinching pennies on a tank of gas for the near future.. why should we care if the fuel we're burning is actually sustainable?

3: i can't tell if you're being facetious :|

lol johnny, why are you so worked up about it? we're on the verge right now of finding other ways... what makes you think that in 100 years we're gonna be fucked? 100 years ago the horse was the number one way to get around - look at all the stuff that's happened since 1900. i'm not worried about oil 100 years from now in the least. right now it's the largest and most efficent source of energy we have, and i hear all the time about how they're finding more and more of it in different spots. it's all over canada and mexico. we've got it alaska, off the coast of florida, in the great lakes - none of which we're allowed to touch. obviously south america and the middle east have plenty.

there are people holding this country back and it pisses me off. we're not allowed to use our own oil or build refineries - and we're not allowed to go nuclear either when every other country has deemed it a safe clean way of producing alot of power. they won't even let us use coal anymore. we've tried building windmills but the very people who won't let us drill or build say that they're an eyesore .... it's all one big mess of nonsense. now i don't expect you to understand how i feel - you're not an american. canada is a fine country, sure, and i'm sure if you thought that your government was lacking in common sense then you'd get frustrated too. i see where things are headed and it makes me sad, and it makes me sick to think that people are letting it happen.

oh, i'm sure the canadian government is lacking common sense too. just on different agendas/policies/whatevers :) don't even get me started about the canadian conservative party...

i guess the reason i'm so worked up is because it seems like a genuinely important and pressing issue to me. to be so blasé about it, and assume that within X# of years things will work themselves out, feels like a much too complacent approach. how many of us are reliant on oil and natural gas..? and nobody seems at all interested in preparing for a day when we can't rely on those resources anymore. after all, there isn't an endless supply. you seem to be taking for granted the fact that technological advancements will just happen--poof! like magic--simply because they've happened before. i don't think citing what has happened in the last century can guarantee anything for the next, necessarily.

you're acting like we'd be consuming more resources. rads not proposing using all the resources we currently are, then using US owned resources on top of that. its a replacement effect not a cumulative one.

but do you honestly think that if you could use u.s. resources (at a lower cost, 'cause that's what rad seems to be going for) people wouldn't consume more, simply because they could afford to again? ultimately, it all seems to be about money -- so if gas is cheaper, i have a feeling that most people will enable themselves to use more of it. humans are wasteful!

well if thats your argument for why we should use foreign resources, wouldn't it make more sense to regulate consumption? im not saying i even agree with your presumption, but if the only good reason not to use are own resources is because it would be cheap and that means we can afford more of it. wouldnt the logical thing be to limit how much can be used rather than paying inflated rates to foreign countries?

global warming nuts are going to start trying to do exactly that. start saving up for your "carbon credits" people ;-)

i wasn't saying we should limit consumption, for the record. i was just saying if it was between that and 4 dollars a gallon to terrorist, i would choose that.

I don't like spending a fortune on gas either (especially as a bi-annual cross-country driver and a resident of Los Angeles County.) but Johnny's right--this is the first time the world has recognized that they should limit their driving, buy more conservative vehicles, carpool, utilize public transport etc, at least on a wide scale. High prices, like it or not, are the only way people will be driven to actually switch to alternative fuel sources eventually, in my opinion, and who's to say that despite being close to alternatives we will turn to them without selfish motivation? When electric cars emerged, just a thin slice of the population bought into them, same with smart cars, etc...it's just not as convenient or as comfortable as a gasoline powered Navigator.

It's not as much about the environment as it is about the fact that fossil fuels are not never-ending. What we have in North America is no where near what the middle east has. We need to make the switch now.

I don't know if that actually gets my point across. It's bedtime.

Oh, and Hex, I am not a cunt.

neither you or johnny have explained why the only possible way to limit consumption is to pay overpay foreigners. this is really two different discussions being balled up into one.

if you feel high prices are necessary otherwise we will consume too much, then that is a round about way of regulated gas. it also is killing our economy. having a debate about using a credit system or not would be where you could argue that americans consume too much natural resources. overpaying for oil is not a propper way to control consumption.

Oh, and Liss, yeah you are.

I don't think anyone's saying we should raise prices to cause people to limit driving. But I think it's pretty obvious that most Americans don't give a shit until it starts hitting their wallet, and these high prices at the pump are causing more people to be concerned.

maybe. doesnt change that we could be paying alot less for gas.

and we could be paying for a lot less gas, just sayin'

how about both.

sure. we either have to increase supply or decrease demand. increasing supply is a lot of dirty work for oil companies who are already making tons of money. decreasing demand is a lot of clean work that opens up new job opportunities in a field that is relatively new.

actually the oil companies have been trying to build and develop new refineries and oil wells for years and years, but the environmentalists won't let them. "big oil" isn't making more of a profit now than it ever has, and building new refineries and pumps would create new jobs while lowering the price of gasoline drastically.

oh ok

If they can't make new refineries, and they have record profits with nothing to spend them on... how about invest and redirect into future energy possibilities. Why can't they be an ENERGY company instead of an OIL company?

Oil companies are also responsible for the failure to make fuel cell powered vehicles a daily American tool. We have the technology to make the change to renewable fuel--hydrogen--right now--but the oil companies have bought and now own every patent.

I mean, if it's about creating new job opportunities, how about overhauling its entirety?

PS. I had to pay 4.20 for gas today and saw regular for as high as 4.29. In Burbank, an extension of LA, the lowest I saw today was 4.27 while it ranged into the 4.30s.

Only yesterday, the same gas station I went to was at 4.07.

It's in the 3.70s here, I paid 3.79 the other day.

We've been around 4.08+ for a while. i disagree with brandon. oil companies have gone out of their way to avoid more refineries. it creates an artificial demand, allowing them to make more profit.

If I had it my way, we'd drill our own oil, as well as build more refineries. I want to get off our dependency of oil. if the only way that this can be done is by conserving how much is used, so be it. I would rather explore other avenues on how to push innovation ahead in reusable resources, but we can discuss that after we stop funding the economy of other countries ahead of our own.

I want to have a cleaner environment just as much as most people and more than quite a few. Over paying foreign countries and big businesses is not the way to do it. For the most part I agree with liss, johnny, raub, and all the other people that think we are wasteful and it needs to change. I just think a you are considering the wrong tools to do it.
its not their job retard